Products with more than one Phase - D-Tools Forum

01-09-2008, 02:33 AM

Is it possible yet in SI5 to have products with hours in more than one phase? For instance an advanced processor that I want to have assigned x hours in the finish phase and x hours in the programming/calibration phase.

This was one of the biggest shortcomings of SI4 and somebody said this was now supposed to be possible on SI5 but I don't see how.

**Kevin Mikelonis** · 01-09-2008, 02:48 AM

The best way to do this is to accessorize the product with labor items for programming from your database.

This is a better soluiton than having the ability to assign an item to more than 1 phase.

Remember, phases are not just for assigning labor, but also for controlling release of materials into sales orrders and work orders through the lifecylce of the project.

Imagine the issues with filtering/sorting by phase products that have more than 1 phase.

Accessorizing with labor items from the other phase you want labor charged to solves this issue perfectly.

01-11-2008, 03:59 AM

OK, you make some good points that I didn't even think of. The main issue with this is you can't adjust the labor hours on the fly, or you have to have a bunch of labor SKUs for different "quantities" of time.

**Kevin Mikelonis** · 01-11-2008, 02:20 PM

This can also be overcome,

You can accessorize items that need programming with multiple labor items of different times.

We build all databases with labor items for programming to include:

PROGRAMMING 1
PROGRAMMING 2
PROGRAMMING 4
PROGRAMMING 8

For simple items like keypads, we accessorize with:

PROGRAMMING 1 'prompt' - 'recommend'

For more complex items like a 12" touchpanel, we accessorize with:

PROGRAMMING 1 'prompt'
PROGRAMMING 2 'prompt'
PROGRAMMING 4 'prompt' - 'recommend'
PROGRAMMING 8 'prompt'

This way you are always including programming hours, and if the item is going to require a higher degree of programming required for an item, you simply add additional programming hours to the item when adding it to the project by checking the box 'include' when prompted for the accessories.

OR you can just use 1 programming item and increase the quantity when prompted for accessories.

OR you just increase/decrease the difficulty factor for the programming phase if at the end of assembling the project, you feel the programming hours are not corrrect for the overall job.

Whatever you do, PICK ONE as your satandard practice!

This type of methodology and more is built into our STARTER Mastertable for companies who want to build their own Engineered Database.

curt.hayes · 01-15-2008, 05:22 PM

I've taken it a step further, creating 3 different labor types for setup and programming labor. For instance, setup labor is in Finish phase for equipment such as TVs, SS processors, etc. that require initial setup by the tech. I then have SKUs for control labor in the Programming phase assigned to each user interface such as a remote or touchscreen (by device, such as "Control-TV" and "Control-SS Receiver"), as well as interface labor also in the Programming phase assigned to the central processor (again by device, such as "Interface-TV" and "Interface-SS Receiver"). Each of these SKU's has the appropriate amount of labor time assigned to it and are accessories to a "master item" so they can easily be added to the proposal (then shown or hidden, depending on the report).

This has proven very useful for building accurate setup and programming budgets, as well as for showing the client (and ultimately the tech and programmer via checklists) which items are to be controlled by each remote and/or touchscreen.

01-15-2008, 10:00 PM

I understand the setup labor - charge labor for setup as an accessory only if it is needed. Kevin what's your take on that? Would you include the time necessary for setup as part of the equipment Labor Hours, or add it as an accessory item?

Curt, I am confused though by your programming accessory schema. What is the difference between Control & Interface programming?

Do you use an interface programming SKU as an accessory to a touchpanel for instance? Control programming is an accessory to a Processor or Remote rather than the device itself?

This all gets very tricky because programming rates and times will be different for say an RTI remote vs a Crestron system, so do you add programming accessories for multiple kinds of programming or what?

Jack Frost · 01-23-2008, 02:58 AM

Bump.

Interesting convo guys.

I seem to share bfourney's confusion.

Curt, would you elaborate for us a bit?

Good stuff.
Thx.

curt.hayes · 01-23-2008, 04:38 PM

Basically as described by bfourney, except that I use "Interface" for processors and "Control" for devices (remotes, touch screens). In short, I created a labor SKUs "Crestron - Control" & "Crestron - Interface", then accessorized w/programming items w/appropriate time for Crestron programming (i.e. DVD, TV, etc., which vary depending on the device). I've done the same w/a simple "Control" SKU (for remotes such as RTI, Universal, etc.). I drop these in w/each remote or processor, check the appropriate accessory boxes and it's done...very accurate and unaffected by change orders if I replace (for instance) a TPS-2000 w/a TPS-6L.

04-08-2008, 02:28 AM

curious to see what successes / difficulties you guys have had.

Jack Frost · 05-01-2008, 06:39 AM

Hi Curt.

Hopefully this thread will still get your attention.

I've been thinking about the way you described and I think I may start to change my DB to match. I want to be double-triple sure I understood you correctly first though.

I found myself reading/re-reading this thread more than enough times so to be sure I drew up the diagram (attached, .pdf) of my interpretation of your comments. Would you please look at it and tell me if you agree w/ what it describes and if it's how you're doing it.

Much appreciated and kind regards,

J.