More than one Schematics Page... - D-Tools Forum

bfourney · 08-03-2007, 09:29 PM

Is there a recommended way to have the same devices in mutliple pages of schematics? It seems like there must be a trick or maybe it just doesn't work right. If I add devices that are already on another schematic page then it adds another piece of equipment to the data matrix, and if I use the shift+drag technique then the device seems to be disconnected from the project (updating I/O has no effect).

What am I missing here?

paradigm · 08-07-2007, 05:52 PM

Yes i have the same problem,

When designing a large system, I would like the ability to grab a section of the schematic (whole system) to copy drawing to another schematic page (room) without duplicating Project Data Matrix Elements.

Any suggestions?

**Kevin Mikelonis** · 08-07-2007, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by paradigm

Yes i have the same problem,

When designing a large system, I would like the ability to grab a section of the schematic (whole system) to copy drawing to another schematic page (room) without duplicating Project Data Matrix Elements.

Any suggestions?

If you select the items you want to copy to another page and go to Shape>Group, then copy and paste them, this will work.

But it jacks up the intelligence in D-Tools realted to connections and reporting, meaning that D-Tools does not know these items are on the page or in the project, because once grouped, the collection of shapes is now one shape.

You can still draw a sweet schematic, but wire connection reports do not work and neither does reporting with filter by specific schematic pages.

A better way...

Consider using layer properties, where you do one layout, then develop the schematic using one signal type, select those wire shapes and create a new layer for that signal type and assign those wire shapes to that new layer.

The layers can then be turned on and off, so you turn off the layer you do not want to see, and create another new layer by signal type and so on.

JordanC · 08-07-2007, 10:22 PM

Good advice Kevin.

I have found the Layers properties much more difficult to use than having separate pages. If the prperties were dockable to just hit a button to view and unview any particular layer, this would be a much improved function and would most likely use it. However, since I have not been able to dock it, the pages are the way I am going right now. I do however use layers on my plan views, one with product images and the other with rough in wire per location. Layers are also a little more difficult to manage for a novice user for the fact of setting them up properly and making sure everything you need on the right layers.

If you insist on copying several stencils at once to a new layer rather than "redrawing" each device (which can be easy or time consuming), the grouping feature is, what I have found, to be the best way to go.

bfourney · 08-09-2007, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin Mikelonis

If you select the items you want to copy to another page and go to Shape>Group, then copy and paste them, this will work.

But it jacks up the intelligence in D-Tools realted to connections and reporting, meaning that D-Tools does not know these items are on the page or in the project, because once grouped, the collection of shapes is now one shape.

Yeah, I found this out the hard way - just copying one or more shapes doesn't cause additional items to be added to the matrix, but the new shapes behave like they're no longer connected to the rest of the project. For instance the highlighting in the matrix is no longer accurate and if you need to update the I/O on a device on another page it won't work.

Originally Posted by Kevin Mikelonis

A better way...

Consider using layer properties, where you do one layout, then develop the schematic using one signal type, select those wire shapes and create a new layer for that signal type and assign those wire shapes to that new layer.

The layers can then be turned on and off, so you turn off the layer you do not want to see, and create another new layer by signal type and so on.

Here's the problem with that, I assume you have a layer with all the equipment and other layers for different connection types? So one device can only be on one layer and in one location?

What I really need is some of the same equipment with different connections shown on different pages with different page names with the equipment laid out in different locations on the page optimized to the drawing type. The equipment should be linked to the Data Matrix so that if it's deleted from the project or the I/O is changed all schematic pages are updated.

Are you telling me this isn't possible?! How the hell is this even useful for building schematics?! Surely this is not that uncommon a thing to do, how can you possibly fit every connection type for every device on one page and still have it be legible?

JordanC · 08-09-2007, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by bfourney

Surely this is not that uncommon a thing to do, how can you possibly fit every connection type for every device on one page and still have it be legible?

Use bigger paper!

Take the time to re-drop your stencils onto separate pages based on the signal flow (AUDIO, VIDEO, CONTROL, POWER, ETC).

I try to keep my projects within 15 pages of drawings on 18x24 sized paper. If I have a larger project, I will expand the page to 30x42 on our wonderful HP plotter and give myself some room to work with. You can also try messing with the page scale. Do what works for you.

**Kevin Mikelonis** · 08-10-2007, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by bfourney

What I really need is some of the same equipment with different connections shown on different pages with different page names with the equipment laid out in different locations on the page optimized to the drawing type.

I have read and reread these posts and think I have made a wrong assumption while giving advice.

Please confirm for me, are you dragging in a schematic shape from the stencil tree or a product to the schematic page from the product window to the left of the datamatrix?

Or are you dragging items to the schematic page from the data matrix?

I ask because the behaviors you are describing match the actions D-Tools will exhibit when dragging items into the schematic (the project) from anywhere other than the data matrix.

Best practice for using D-Tools...

1. Build your project in text first.

2. Then drag items to the drawings from the project data matrix.

mecbrad · 09-11-2007, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by bfourney

What I really need is some of the same equipment with different connections shown on different pages with different page names with the equipment laid out in different locations on the page optimized to the drawing type. The equipment should be linked to the Data Matrix so that if it's deleted from the project or the I/O is changed all schematic pages are updated.

Are you telling me this isn't possible?! How the hell is this even useful for building schematics?! Surely this is not that uncommon a thing to do, how can you possibly fit every connection type for every device on one page and still have it be legible?

I am currently having some of the same issues, I cant fit everything on one page. I like your idea of having some of the same equipment on different pages or at minimum be able to reference thru the wire wizard equipment on other pages. Maybe there would be an arrow with text that references equipment, input/output & schematic page.

SenoS · 09-11-2007, 09:11 PM

Have you tried collapsing the schematic shapes once the connections are made? You can do this for all of the shapes on the page by selecting D-Tools->Wiring->Options and then checking the "Show connected terminals only" box. If you just want to collapse a specific schematic shape, right-click the shape and select "Show connected terminals". So the solution to fitting a schematic on one page for you may be a combination of page size, drawing scale, and the "show connected terminals" function.

mecbrad · 09-12-2007, 07:34 PM

Yes I have collapsed most of the equipment and made my page size 36x48. I can make everything fit but it gets real crowded. I also would like to be able to separate systems on different pages and have them reference each other. I can make it work for now, but it would be nice to be able to do that in the somewhat near future. You know, maybe the software development team could work on it in their spare time. hahaha!